I Always Update on Sunday
Despite the following hand, I am still doing well at the Party 30 games:
- One limper, I raise in cutoff with QQ, BB three-bets, limper folds, I cap, BB calls. Flop Q86, BB checks, I bet, BB calls. Turn 3, he check-calls. River K, he check-calls and shows down AA?!? Where's the rest of the pot? Oh well.
I cashed in the Party $200 last night. I had a more than 2x average stack for a while after winning some flips early and one hand where a guy made a big reraise with KQ and I had AK. I lost my chips pretty quickly on a bad bluff, stealing with Ax when the small blind woke up with AJ, re-stealing with Ax when the button raiser found AT and called, and then losing QJ to TT for the rest of my stack. This was probably the most interesting hand of the night:
- Blinds 200/400, I start the hand with 12k. Cutoff (5400) limps, SB (5600) calls, I check in BB with 54o. Flop 753, SB leads out for 500, I make it 1500, Cutoff jams for 5000, SB folds. With 8200 in the pot, I called 3500 more and he showed me QQ. A 6 came on the turn and I busted him.
I never know what to put people on when they open limp in the cutoff or on the button. Online tournament players' range here seems to be approximately any two cards. I've seen people open limp on the button with AA and I've seen people open limp on the button with 32o. If you think about it that way, it sounds like an attractive strategy because it's hard for anyone to put you on a hand. But there's a better strategy that has all the same positives and also gives you a chance to steal the blinds, namely OPEN RAISING INSTEAD OF LIMPING YOU DONKEYS. I gave the guy a range of about 88-33, A7s, A5s, J7s, T7s, 97s, 87s, 76s, 75s, A7o, A5o, 87o when he jammed. With this range, I have 30% equity and an easy call. Even if you add all pairs up to AA, I have an easy call. In fact, adding more overpairs to his range slightly increases my equity in this situation. Poker is a funny game. The moral of the story is don't open limp in late position, people.
- One limper, I raise in cutoff with QQ, BB three-bets, limper folds, I cap, BB calls. Flop Q86, BB checks, I bet, BB calls. Turn 3, he check-calls. River K, he check-calls and shows down AA?!? Where's the rest of the pot? Oh well.
I cashed in the Party $200 last night. I had a more than 2x average stack for a while after winning some flips early and one hand where a guy made a big reraise with KQ and I had AK. I lost my chips pretty quickly on a bad bluff, stealing with Ax when the small blind woke up with AJ, re-stealing with Ax when the button raiser found AT and called, and then losing QJ to TT for the rest of my stack. This was probably the most interesting hand of the night:
- Blinds 200/400, I start the hand with 12k. Cutoff (5400) limps, SB (5600) calls, I check in BB with 54o. Flop 753, SB leads out for 500, I make it 1500, Cutoff jams for 5000, SB folds. With 8200 in the pot, I called 3500 more and he showed me QQ. A 6 came on the turn and I busted him.
I never know what to put people on when they open limp in the cutoff or on the button. Online tournament players' range here seems to be approximately any two cards. I've seen people open limp on the button with AA and I've seen people open limp on the button with 32o. If you think about it that way, it sounds like an attractive strategy because it's hard for anyone to put you on a hand. But there's a better strategy that has all the same positives and also gives you a chance to steal the blinds, namely OPEN RAISING INSTEAD OF LIMPING YOU DONKEYS. I gave the guy a range of about 88-33, A7s, A5s, J7s, T7s, 97s, 87s, 76s, 75s, A7o, A5o, 87o when he jammed. With this range, I have 30% equity and an easy call. Even if you add all pairs up to AA, I have an easy call. In fact, adding more overpairs to his range slightly increases my equity in this situation. Poker is a funny game. The moral of the story is don't open limp in late position, people.
posted by Chris Fargis at 1:25 PM
8 Comments:
" The moral of the story is don't open limp in late position, people."
I think you may want to clairify just a tad bit. There are some situations where an open-limp from LP w/ the likes of AA or KK is not a bad play IMO.
Say.. short handed, 6 left in the tourny, blinds 20/40k, pick up AA on the button or cutoff. You're the big stack at the table and your raises are getting mad respect.
I'd often limp in this spot if the stacks in the BB/SB are not big enough to cripple me. One of 3 things can happen there.
1. The BB or SB flops 2 pair, and cracks our AA. (even then we have outs)
2. The BB or SB flop 1 pair or a big draw, in which case we still get the chips in as a fav.
3. The BB or SB bluff or semi-bluff at the pot, in which case we have them dominated for all their chips (or at least the amount of the bluff if they fold to our raise)
I can think of a few other situations that I might play AA or KK, possibly even QQ w/ an open limp. I just don't think you can say "don't do xxx w/ xxx in xxx position" in poker.. anything is fair game if the situation calls for it.
I don't usually say "Don't do X" in poker, but I'm pretty comfortable saying "Don't open limp in late position in a no-limit hold em tournament." Open limping with AA/KK is terrible, IMO. To be a winning NLH tournament player, you simply must steal the blinds frequently. This makes it even more imperative that you raise with your big hands because people will know you will be stealing often when you raise and will play back at you, whereas if you limp they're often happy to check and see a flop.
I see your point there. But lets say that the SB/BB are two very weak tight players who haven't shown the propensity to make a resteal. You know, the type of player who thinks everyone has AA and KK when they DO raise. Raising w/ AA, KK there is just turning it into J3 right?
You're a higher stakes player though, so I'm sure the higher buy-in tournaments you don't run into many players who can't resteal.
But.. in the lower limit tourneys we have PLENTY of types of players.
I prefer to raise in this situation. In fact I have been on a 3xBB standard raise kick of late, for all pots that I am first into, UTG, cutoff, button.
However in the tourney I played in on Sunday I had KK and AA on or near the button, made a standard raise and got no action. I was in a place where I needed action. I don't know if limping was the answer, but my raise wasn't getting it done.
On the other side, if I limped the SB or BB would have ended up with a straight to the 6 and cleaned me out.
" On the other side, if I limped the SB or BB would have ended up with a straight to the 6 and cleaned me out."
Then of course there's that :) I have limped w/ AA before and had it cracked by the BB catching a big flop.
Of course I've also collected a lot of chips doing it when the BB catches top pair, or a big draw and jams on the flop. It's a definate risk/reward type of play, but when you think about it, late in online tourneys, the blinds get so silly, that the majority of your chips come from..
A - Steal Blinds/Re-steals
B - Races
If at all possible you kind of like to avoid B, but you can't help it
when the blinds are 20/40k and the chip leader only has 300-400k. There is SOOOOOOOOO little flop play late in those tournaments and when there is it's usually VERY agressive so chances are the SB/BB is going to make a play at the pot on the flop and we'll have them dominated (most of the time).
Also, by open limping you are really inducing a steal bet by the SB/BB. I know I will usually raise if someone open limps from the cutoff or button.
All of that said, I will still open- raise a majority of the time w/ AA/KK in LP. Yet, I think there are situations where it's a +EV play. Donkiesh as it may seem :)
If the blinds are tight, you should still raise with big pairs. If you steal the blinds, don't take that as a defeat. It's good to steal the blinds, no matter what hand you have. In fact if the blinds really are as tight as you say, you're only going to get action on a flop where you're behind. Keep in mind it will be impossible to know when you're behind because you've given a random hand a free play.
Is your strategy really, "Open raise in late position with all hands except AA and KK, with which you should sometimes limp?" This is pretty exploitable for obvious reasons. If you decide to open limp with these hands, I really hope you're open limping with 98s and 44 too.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your alias on PartyPoker? I wanted to observe some of your limit play there sometime. And do you play full ring or short-handed? Thanks!
" In fact if the blinds really are as tight as you say, you're only going to get action on a flop where you're behind."
Thats a huge point that most people gloss over, which is dynamic hand value. Most people assume that since their hand was great preflop it MUST be good postflop. The whole point of the 3X raise (aside from controlling the pot) is to disguse your hand strength.
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